Gerrard's Position

[Seftinho]

Why on earth is Gerrard not a M/AM?

He played AM all season last year for Liverpool, yet he's still not classed as one? What does he have to do?

[john_M_F_C]

Last season he played in advanced role, but I wouldn't say he is an out and out attacking midfielder. He done well in the role when asked but, he's not natural to that role. Thats how I see it.

[mh2k55]

Yeah i wondered that, but tbh where ever i play him he performs well so i'm not to bothered :P

[Seftinho]

Last season he played in advanced role, but I wouldn't say he is an out and out attacking midfielder. He done well in the role when asked but, he's not natural to that role. Thats how I see it.

He played in the hole behind the centre-forward. If that's not AM, I don't know what is.

As for not natural to it - he looked plenty comfortable there and was a hell of a lot more effective in that role.

Aquilani also played AM a fair few times for Roma, yet he's only a M..

[john_M_F_C]

He played in the hole behind the centre-forward. If that's not AM, I don't know what is.

As for not natural to it - he looked plenty comfortable there and was a hell of a lot more effective in that role.

Aquilani also played AM a fair few times for Roma, yet he's only a M..

On the demo Aquilani was AM/M don't knw why this has changed.

As for Gerrard yes, he did play there, and look comfortable in the role he was asked, but at that level there are better attacking mid's. He wasn't quite an out and out attacking mid though imo. He was granted the freedom as a player and played his natural gam, barging forward when he wants and letting fly.

[Saints Fan]

On the demo Aquilani was AM/M don't knw why this has changed.

As for Gerrard yes, he did play there, and look comfortable in the role he was asked, but at that level there are better attacking mid's. He wasn't quite an out and out attacking mid though imo. He was granted the freedom as a player and played his natural gam, barging forward when he wants and letting fly.

Sorry but Gerrard was playing AM in a 4-2-3-1. He was literally playing behind Torres for the whole of last season, and this too!

His role was about as 'AM' as you can get! :D Plus he looks pretty natural to me. If he wasn't natural, then it does make you wonder how he managed to score 16 goals in 31 games for Liverpool in the league last season, as well as being one of the best and most consistent players in the Premier League!

Regards,
SF.

[john_M_F_C]

Sorry but Gerrard was playing AM in a 4-2-3-1. He was literally playing behind Torres for the whole of last season, and this too!

His role was about as 'AM' as you can get! :D Plus he looks pretty natural to me. If he wasn't natural, then it does make you wonder how he managed to score 16 goals in 31 games for Liverpool in the league last season, as well as being one of the best and most consistent players in the Premier League!

Regards,
SF.

He was coming back alot, he was just given the freedom to play his natural game which is being a kind of box to box midfielder. His goal tally is usually around that 15 goal mark so thats not a new thing. He does regularly get asked to play as a kind of Am but that's not to say that's what he is.

[Jon1983uk]

Gerrard is box-to-box? If he was, he'd be able to play alongside Lampard for England for a start. :D

If anything, I see Gerrard as more 'AM/F C' now, with his 'natural' position being AMC.

There does seem to be 'natural' positions in CM, as players listed with multiple positions will sometimes have them 'greyed out' when you go to change their positional training, meaning they're obviously natural in that area already.

[john_M_F_C]

Gerrard is box-to-box? If he was, he'd be able to play alongside Lampard for England for a start. :D

If anything, I see Gerrard as more 'AM/F C' now, with his 'natural' position being AMC.

There does seem to be 'natural' positions in CM, as players listed with multiple positions will sometimes have them 'greyed out' when you go to change their positional training, meaning they're obviously natural in that area already.

Box to box imo is the best was to describe Gerrard, he does come back and defend, but still loves a chagre forward. He can play in AM, he's versatile, I'd imagine he could fill in at full back if asked. He's played on the left alot, he's not left sided on the game. He's best used as a central midfielder. The reason England don't get the best out of him is because he is usually shackled with the holding role. I understand Cappello has been using him in a more advanced role though, I've not seen an England game for abit.

[neilly93]

As for Gerrard yes, he did play there, and look comfortable in the role he was asked, but at that level there are better attacking mid's.


Like who?

[john_M_F_C]

Like who?

erm, Kaka?

[john_M_F_C]

thats just one btw, I'm not naming players who're better than Gerrard.

[Saints Fan]

Box to box imo is the best was to describe Gerrard, he does come back and defend, but still loves a chagre forward. He can play in AM, he's versatile, I'd imagine he could fill in at full back if asked. He's played on the left alot, he's not left sided on the game. He's best used as a central midfielder. The reason England don't get the best out of him is because he is usually shackled with the holding role. I understand Cappello has been using him in a more advanced role though, I've not seen an England game for abit.

He's not playing 'box to box' for Liverpool though, is he? He is playing in the 'AM' position for Liverpool and for England.

Of course, he has a defensive side to his game and he tracks back. That has no bearing on the fact that he is playing as an attacking midfielder for Liverpool.

Taken from the Liverpool website:
'While usually operating as an attacking midfielder behind lone striker Fernando Torres at club level, Fabio Capello has chosen to use Gerrard ostensibly on the left flank. '

Taken from a recent Guardian article by Paul Haywood, chief sports writer:
'A fresh target being talked about in Liverpool for Steven Gerrard in 2010 is to emulate Roger Hunt, the Anfield striker who won the league title and World Cup in assorted shades of red in the honeyed summer of 1966. This is not as giddy as it sounds, because Gerrard deserves to be thought of now as the finest attacking midfielder born here since Bobby Charlton.'

It's actually totally irrelevant if you think there are better players in that position. He performs there week in, week out for his club.

The fact is that he should have the appropriate competency in both the CM and AM positions.

Regards,
SF.

[gesh]

erm, Kaka?

i would not say kaka was better then gerrard as AMC..

not in real life anyway.. kaka really has not scored any 'important' goals .. but i could name quite a few from Gerrard!

[Saints Fan]

Interesting article here actually: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/apr/22/where-have-box-to-box-midfielders-gone

It's about box-to-box midfielders and their decline. Talks a lot about Gerrard's position.

Rafa Benítez, who is probably the most Sacchian manager English football has known, seems to have harboured similar doubts. Twice, he was willing to sell his captain (to Chelsea, who would presumably have used Lampard and Gerrard to flank Makelele in a 4-3-3), and his regular deployment of Gerrard on the right or the left of a midfield four was surely evidence of his uneasiness at giving him responsibility in the centre.

It was, of course, the use of Didi Hamann as a holding player that released Gerrard in the 2005 Champions League final, while Benítez's conversion to 4-2-3-1 more recently has given Gerrard licence, because he has two holders behind him. Gerrard started as a complete midfielder, might have become a holding midfielder who get forward, and has become instead an attacking midfielder who can put in the odd tackle.

Regards,
SF.

[S2Alex2]

For me he should be M/AM/F(C) on this game. R/L as well at a push. I was most puzzled to see him as just M(R/C) on this. Did they not watch him at all last year? For a start, Capello uses him on the left to maintain balance because it allows Barry to play DM(C) alongside Lampard who plays as more of a typical box-to-box midfielder. So he should probably be able to play on the left, although Capello doesn't play him as a typical left midfielder as he's given license to roam inside on his right foot and link up with Rooney and others, kind of like how Modric plays for Spurs.

With Liverpool last season with their 4-2-3-1 you could say he played attacking midfield at the deepest, but particularly after Liverpool began to become more destructive and adventurous after the demolition of Real Madrid in the CL he was essentially a second striker in behind Torres, similar to the role Rooney favours. They're called F(C)'s in this game to complement an S(C) like Torres so he should definitely have AM/F(R/L/C) IMO, although generally he isn't great as a right midfielder.

Lastly, now that Liverpool have lost Alonso and don't have Aquilani fit, they are lacking creativity in the centre of the park, which is why Gerrard has been asked to drop deeper to play a more traditional M(C) role. So that's my essay on why Gerrard should be M/AM/F(R/L/C). :)

While we're talking about positions of players, shouldn't Rooney be AM/F(R/L/C)? He was frequently utilised (very effectively generally, except perhaps in the CL final) on the left and the right of midfield, particularly in Europe last season, usually to track back with attacking full backs because of his work rate and give quality going forward on that flank too.

[Stephen Morrison]

To me Gerrard's can play DM/M/AM/F quite comfortably. You could probably even add in FB as he started his career playing there, and as a midfielder with his current attributes he can comfortably play in any of those positions in game.

However I will review this in future and decide whether we need to change how his position is displayed. I agree he now plays an attacking role more than anywhere else these days, but at the same time we also saw against Debrecen when he played deeper there is so much more to his game than just being an attacking midfielder. To me "midfielder" describes him better as an all round player, but maybe we can add attacking midfielder also to emphasise that is where he's more likely to be deployed.

[john_M_F_C]

i would not say kaka was better then gerrard as AMC..

not in real life anyway.. kaka really has not scored any 'important' goals .. but i could name quite a few from Gerrard!

Kaka is what twice world player of the year? Attacking mid isn't all about goals you know?

[Seftinho]

erm, Kaka?

Very debatable that one, what with Kaka's form since winning the Ballon d'Or. John - past awards count for nothing in terms of current ability unless they were the very previous season. If they did, Ronaldinho would still be the best in the world, no?

If you're counting Messi as a Forward, then it's a toss-up between Kaka, Gerrard, Iniesta and possible Ribery (if you count him as an AM, where he performs best) as for the best in the world.

Anyway, this is diverting away from the topic. The way I see it, Gerrard should be 100 in M, 90 or 100 in AM, 70 odd in DM, 100 in the centre, 80 on the right and 60 or 70 on the left.

Cheers for the response Stephen, nice to see BGS getting back to us. Thanks. :thup:

[affliction]

Gerrards natural position is a centre mid, he basically played as a forward last season and played very well, he should be able to play both on the game tbh.

[john_M_F_C]

Very debatable that one, what with Kaka's form since winning the Ballon d'Or. John - past awards count for nothing in terms of current ability unless they were the very previous season. If they did, Ronaldinho would still be the best in the world, no?



I understand this, he' still been very good, otherwise he wouldn't have been all be it brielfy the worlds most expensve player.

[Seftinho]

I understand this, he' still been very good, otherwise he wouldn't have been all be it brielfy the worlds most expensve player.

No doubt, but he's not exactly stand-out better then the other three mentioned at the minute. As for the transfer fee thing - well, how can you compare when Gerrard, Iniesta and Ribery have never transferred (excluding the latter, who was just a kid when he joined Bayern)? Age also comes into a transfer fee, and let's not forget who was buying him.

Transfer fees don't really determine how good or bad a player is.

Anyway, lets stop sidetracking. :)

[Jon1983uk]

I'd regard Kaka as perhaps top 3, certainly 5 top in the world still, even though admittedly he's not always consistent. Ribery, Iniesta, Ronaldo and Messi would make up the rest of a top 5 (not in order :D).

I've never edited a CM game before, so what's the number in a player's position field in the editor that registers that position appearing in a player's profile in the game? 75 at a guess?

I'll check what Gerrard's position 'stats' are in the FM09 editor and convert them to /100. I'll most likely use FM as a base for any stat update I attempt for CM, as I find their stats to be accurate on the whole.

[Seftinho]

I'd regard Kaka as perhaps top 3, certainly 5 top in the world still, even though admittedly he's not always consistent. Ribery, Iniesta, Ronaldo and Messi would make up the rest of a top 5 (not in order :D).

I've never edited a CM game before, so what's the number in a player's position field in the editor that registers that position appearing in a player's profile in the game? 75 at a guess?

I'll check what Gerrard's position 'stats' are in the FM09 editor and convert them to /100. I'll most likely use FM as a base for any stat update I attempt for CM, as I find their stats to be accurate on the whole.

It was 80 in CM08. Not sure about this version, but I would imagine it would be the same.

[immateriaux]

Box to box imo is the best was to describe Gerrard, he does come back and defend, but still loves a chagre forward. He can play in AM, he's versatile, I'd imagine he could fill in at full back if asked. He's played on the left alot, he's not left sided on the game. He's best used as a central midfielder.

That's completely debatable. You just need to see this thread to prove that point. As such, the game should be flexible in attributing a position to Gerrard, it should reflect the fact that he has spent a successful year in th AM, if not CF role at Liverpool. MC/R is not inflexible.

And while we are discussing Liverpool player positions, why is Babel down as a left winger? He's equally rubbish on both the left and right....

[immateriaux]

That's completely debatable... MC/R is not inflexible.

Bugger, I forgot there's no edit in this place, the last line should read "MC/R is too inflexible"

[immateriaux]

And while I'm in here, Danni Pacheco has often playing behind the forward line and is very comfortable in a deep position so I think he's another candidate for a AM role.

Also, his stats in my game are, specifically, Dribbling 46, First Touch 50 and Finishing 63 but if I had to describe Pacheco in one word in would be "Dribbling", he is defined by his dribbling ability, it's mis-representative of him to put that ability so far behind "Finishing" (which isn't something I think he would have particular renown for)....

[Utopia]

Why on earth is Gerrard not a M/AM?

He played AM all season last year for Liverpool, yet he's still not classed as one? What does he have to do?

Guys, does that matter?
In CM2010, to retrain a player to a position that he played well, it just take me 1 month to get welbeck to be WG/FRC.

Just retrain Gerard to AMC or FC or whatever position you want him to.

[Vijayuk]

Gerrard can play right-back also, as he did in his early career before Houlier started to be play him more advanced.

So:

FB/DM/M/AM/F (R/L/C)

He is the best all-round player imo.

[Seftinho]

Guys, does that matter?
In CM2010, to retrain a player to a position that he played well, it just take me 1 month to get welbeck to be WG/FRC.

Just retrain Gerard to AMC or FC or whatever position you want him to.

Of course it matters. It's unrealistic.

You can only retrain players if you have the player. I'm not Liverpool, I don't have Gerrard. So therefore I can't retrain him and he remains an M on the game.

[affliction]

Guys, does that matter?
In CM2010, to retrain a player to a position that he played well, it just take me 1 month to get welbeck to be WG/FRC.

Just retrain Gerard to AMC or FC or whatever position you want him to.

Will this not take up some of his potential ability? I'd imagine so. He played a whole season basically as a forward and played there very well, he should have that ability on the game.