Wishlist CM 09 Needs instead of just pretty graphics

[DUTTCH]

So no staduim at this stage -
Hopefully you guys will incorporate more history/stats - please add/readd history of games played against teams eg wins loses draws and total points along with every time you played a certain team.

please add more tactics, maybe quarter each half so we can plan runs/feeds/aggressive tactles/shots/passing in each quarter displayed?

more training or training plans like 07 where we choose train type

Harder European Cup games against better teams,

More history on stats of players, total goals scored, asists etc


To Be Continued

[MerseysideRed1]

What is this? American Football? We go by halves, not quarters.

There (I believe) is a type of algorithm which decides whether you win or not, so of course the matches may vary in difficulty, you can't do anything about that.

I barely agree with most of your ideas, I'm sad to say. I rarely use training, and also with a longer list of history shown would lag up the game as well.

[peterswellman]

That's not his point at all about quaters. He means that the gaes should be just divided into quaters so get more accurate stats.

[joshsam]

Originally Posted by DUTTCH

please add more tactics, maybe quarter each half so we can plan runs/feeds/aggressive tactles/shots/passing in each quarter displayed?

Like the old with/without ball screen in the older versions of CM?

[joshsam]

Forgot to add, anything that adds to the training and stats/history of players and thus adds to the detail of the game is welcome - it all adds to the realism.

[DUTTCH]

the quarters are for tactics? dividing the soccer field two halfs into quarter so we can edit team tactics in each quarter of the field - place players around, add more passing/running tactics in each quarter of the field arranging defence and attk and striker postions throughout the whole field. Maybe add when in postion with the ball/ and without the ball (so attking positions and defending postions in arranging tactics?

CM09 must have game history stats of wins/loses/draws just showing how many times your teams have played each other!!!and shows a kind of rival against the other teams through the season eg how many time Ipswich Town has played and beaten Liverpool or M/United It adds to the game so much more? in staed of just last scoreline they played, something so small but gives alot more than what is in cmo8 lack of history of games?

During game tactics - allow us to also select marking players instead of just before match and at half time tactics -

[DUTTCH]

oh yer, forgot to thank you guys for the comments

[TacticalGenius]

Originally Posted by MerseysideRed1

I rarely use training

So what lind of manager are you? And what kind of management simulation is this? Removing the CM07 training model was a disaster for CM08, it takes almost all the skill out of the game, especially if you download tactics instead of making them yourself. Training and improving your players is where 50% of the skill is in football. The other 50% is on the pitch. I would LOVE to see 'proper' training back in CM09.

TG.

[chris777]

What about pictures of yourself as the manager? I know its quite a small thing and some people may think there's no point but I think its good if you can see a picture of yourself a the manager when you win manager of the month or something, LMA manager used to have this and FM 2009 have it so I think it would be quite good.

[Anthony Kyne]

Originally Posted by TacticalGenius

So what lind of manager are you? And what kind of management simulation is this? Removing the CM07 training model was a disaster for CM08, it takes almost all the skill out of the game, especially if you download tactics instead of making them yourself. Training and improving your players is where 50% of the skill is in football. The other 50% is on the pitch. I would LOVE to see 'proper' training back in CM09.

TG.

What would you call proper training?
Because I'm thinking you're going to be very impressed with what we've got this year!

[TacticalGenius]

Originally Posted by Anthony Kyne

What would you call proper training?

Well, anything is better than what we have at the moment, and some improvement on the 07 model would be a good place to start...

TG.

[Anthony Kyne]

The training was more powerful in CM08 than the other CM's. Previously you had a lot of control of the schedule but it didn't make huge strides in improving players.
In CM08 you could actually mould players. Get a hesitant strikers to round the keeper or get your wandering winger to hug the touch line. Something that actually gave you a feeling that you were doing something on the training pitch and getting it across on match day.

CM09 though does again give you the ability to create weekly schedules for the players, these will actually give you details of what attributes they're going to improve and the strain it's going to be putting on players. We're keeping the retraining players positions and tendencies as well. This has all been linked into the players DNA so that you can help him grow into the player he has the potential of becoming.

But the big new feature with training though is that you will actually be able to go to the training ground and take training yourself. Seeing players performing in different training drills of your choice to see who is better in certain situations and formations. I wont say too much about this now but me and Cappo will be putting together something in the next couple of weeks that will give you a detailed insight into what it's all about.

[Tomst]

Excellent news for someone but not for me,now i'm sure i won't buy it,and in a year or two you will need quad processors with 8gigs of ram and best graphic card to run a game that is based on a text!

[Anthony Kyne]

Originally Posted by Tomst

Excellent news for someone but not for me,now i'm sure i won't buy it,and in a year or two you will need quad processors with 8gigs of ram and best graphic card to run a game that is based on a text!

I don't understand? Why would you not buy it if it sounds like a good feature and how is the game based on text?

[Tomst]

Originally Posted by Anthony Kyne

I don't understand? Why would you not buy it if it sounds like a good feature and how is the game based on text?

Because it isn't what i want from a game,i want a 'game' not simulation,i don't care so much for the graphical side of the game for example how will the players look on the pitch(never used it)and something like that,i care about gameplay only,for me the perfect game would be 0102 with a few new things added,i have tryed every edition of cm from 0102 until today but i only play 0102,cm4 was the first edition with pitch and if you remove pitch,you will have text based game,why can't you add special mode in a game to play like 0102,many people don't use pitch and prozone!

[Anthony Kyne]

We're trying to make a game that is as close to managing a football team as possible. It has to be fun yes but it also has to simulate the job of a real life football manager without becoming boring.
Why would you not want to see the game? How tactically can you manage your team without seeing it? If you don't, it's just a plain old buying and selling game where before each match you compare two average ratings to decide who plays.
Our aim, as i've said on another thread, is to try and create a football world and then give you questions and conundrums and a set of tools that help you answer these.

Why would you watch teletext rather than the actual match? you wouldn't because you'd miss vital information. Our job is to present you with as much information as possible so you can get the best performance from your players. The biggest pet hate of CM fans of old is the "I had 20 chances they had 1 and I lost 1-0" this was mainly caused by a lack of information given to the user and the more we present this the more you will know the reason why and the more fulfilling the game will be when you solve the problem.

Don't you agree?

[neil12345]

i am looking frw to Cm09 game it will be fun to play!!X

[Tomst]

Maybe it's funny but i would rather watch teletext instead of playing 5 matches a day,and i would like to know why my team lost and what's wrong with my players,but without watching it on a pitch,i would like to get some kind of report instead of 20min of viewing and analysing,i like realism but don't like it when it's killing the game,why can't you do something for cm players who are with you from the first days of cm!

[Anthony Kyne]

That's what we're trying to do, as well as building and improving what is already there.
You should be able to complete a season in a time that is enjoyable, I agree, and again we're trying to make this version as fast as possible. I think last year you could do it in about 6-10hrs playing properly.
The graphics engine isn't the thing that slows the match down it's the processing of the complex manager AI for training their players, the players ageing, players happiness stuff like that.
The whole of our matches can be run with animation engine turned off and we do that for AI vs AI matches so even if we had an old style text display it wouldn't make any difference to the speed unless we took out major intelligence which isn't what anyone wants. If we did that we might as well just add up all the stats add a random number and work out a score from that and that then becomes unrealistic.

We're becoming more accessible with each version we do so I'm sure that when you play the demo of our game you'll be pleasantly surprised and wonder why you were so against a graphical representation of the match.

[Tomst]

I really hope that i will be pleasantly surprised when i play the demo because i was dissapointed with last editions of cm!

[TacticalGenius]

Originally Posted by Anthony Kyne

That's what we're trying to do, as well as building and improving what is already there.
You should be able to complete a season in a time that is enjoyable, I agree, and again we're trying to make this version as fast as possible. I think last year you could do it in about 6-10hrs playing properly.
The graphics engine isn't the thing that slows the match down it's the processing of the complex manager AI for training their players, the players ageing, players happiness stuff like that.
The whole of our matches can be run with animation engine turned off and we do that for AI vs AI matches so even if we had an old style text display it wouldn't make any difference to the speed unless we took out major intelligence which isn't what anyone wants. If we did that we might as well just add up all the stats add a random number and work out a score from that and that then becomes unrealistic.

We're becoming more accessible with each version we do so I'm sure that when you play the demo of our game you'll be pleasantly surprised and wonder why you were so against a graphical representation of the match.

Ignore him Anthony, because if he wants to play 0102 so much, let him play teletext football and make 09 for people who want to watch. But I admit I do have my concerns at how much processing power these new gfx are going to require. The last thing we need is the match engine running slow and ****e like FM09, because no matter how good the rest of the game is, if that is slow, glitched or laggy, the game will suck. And not everyone is running dual/quad core processors with GB's of RAM... For example, when I move I'll only be using a dual core T3200 pentium laptop with 1GB RAM and Vista home premium. Will the new CM run smoothly with that? And also, will cm09 have that nasty copy protection like FM? Because I won't have internet once I move, and FM was almost impossible to install using the phone service according to friends...

Thanks in advance,
TG.

[TacticalGenius]

Sorry for the 2x post...

The new training model sounds great
But... Can we have an option to REMOVE or 'forget' player tendencies or positions from a player, for example Michael Essien with FB/M as a position is a pain when I only want to use him as a Midfielder, but he gets put in with the defenders on the squad screen due to his 'ability' to play FB...

TG.

[Tomst]

Originally Posted by TacticalGenius

Ignore him Anthony

TG.

At the end you agreed with me!

[Tomst]

Originally Posted by TacticalGenius

Sorry for the 2x post...

The new training model sounds great
But... Can we have an option to REMOVE or 'forget' player tendencies or positions from a player, for example Michael Essien with FB/M as a position is a pain when I only want to use him as a Midfielder, but he gets put in with the defenders on the squad screen due to his 'ability' to play FB...

TG.

Is that realistic when you're mentioning reality all the time,how can you forget something you're learning all of your life,it's almoust like forgetting how to drive a bike or a car?

[TacticalGenius]

Originally Posted by Tomst

Is that realistic when you're mentioning reality all the time,how can you forget something you're learning all of your life,it's almoust like forgetting how to drive a bike or a car?

Ok, maybe not forget the positions, but prioritise them? And some tendencies clash with my tactics, and changing it to it's opposite tendency also isn't what I'd like...

TG.

[shwan]

Well before we go to stats ..etc, which I agree for sure
i think CM08 lacked this:

1- tactics:
- time wasting: FMSI & FIFAM already have it for a reason (very useful)
- offside trap : FMSI & FIFAM already have it for a reason (def need to have rate on it depending on their training, and thus can use it during match if it is high enough)
- Defensive line depth: FMSI & FIFAM already have it for a reason (to make my back defend deep or more high or normal)
- passing type: save- normal- risky ( when u are one up, u need more save passing, players pass to others who are more sure to get it without a risk of def nearby around him, normal : is without restriction, and risky, is trying to get the ball more forward ASAP and more to the box. most managers use it when needing a goal at last minutes, u added tempo this year, but I think still they are not the same as tempo is about time u have to make ur decisions, I’m talking here about quality and destinations as main factor )
- creative freedom : sometimes I want my talented player to use his skills and creativity to find solutions rather than restricting himself to team tactic, we need a bar to tune that.
- swap positions : player A and B can switch position to take out a marker outside the box, thus have better chance for an AM like Lambard to go in box and score
- Clearance: often – normal – buildup (players when clearing balls do it in 2 ways: either putinhg the ball out as main priority or try to keep the ball and build up an attack, u need to build up more like when u are 1-0 down, and time is running out and last thing u want ur def to clear ball out, I remember in 80s Bordeaux was a classy team like arsenal and they will never put the ball out. But buildup always an attack )
- change direction: team can change the game from one side to another, it is useful to open up more width and to expand team def trying to create a hole, beside it can be useful having fast winger

2- Media:
Yes at last great improvement as we seen in the screenshoots, but I feel we need to not forget:
- no repetitive articles
- more hot news, like player having problem with manage rand quitting training the speculation about it like robhino case, or transfers sagas like CR or arshavin buying out his contract ..etc.
- gossip section in the news: mostly taken from deals happing in the background or from shortlist any manager makes, and sure some news are not true.
- manager mind games, like Rafa and SAF recently, having all an effect + or – on players on both sides

3- Pre & post Match Analyses:
- after and before each game, it is nice to see like in Skysport, a panel of analysers analysing both sides, giving their prediction and what is main strength and weak points for each team. Then after match, each one in the panel give his reaction to the match, this is where many of prozone analyses become very useful, just like Lee Dixon or alan hanson showing images of what was wrong of Chelsea positioning …etc, did they set back too much, did they lack speed, …etc..
- it is important and nice for us to know that this gonna be hard game as everyone predicting we gonna lose then deliver a win. And it gonna be nicer for the panle of analyser to admit I’m doing great or bad job, this put us more in the picture of every day media life of any managers.

4- pre or post match interview
- main rule, there is no best answer, each one has its + or -, u just have to choose what u need by that time and u think it is right.

5- youth teams
- more youth teams

6- Manager AI:
- try more using tactics that beat ur team in last mach for example
- loan out players who will not play and gonna be out of first 22 in picking up order

7- Board meetings
- manager may attend some board meetings especially in bad times, trying to convince chairman and other members of board why they should keep him, or why results were so bad in last 2-3 matches. Like in real life, it could be done in Qs and answers like interview, then depending on ur answers reaction of board and their decision gonna be told to u, and sure part of that gonna go to the news and media adding more pressure on u and effecting fans confidence on u.

Ok, will add other faeatures to my wishlist once having new ones
cheers

[Villa409]

Originally Posted by shwan

Well before we go to stats ..etc, which I agree for sure
i think CM08 lacked this:

1- tactics:
- time wasting: FMSI & FIFAM already have it for a reason (very useful)
- offside trap : FMSI & FIFAM already have it for a reason (def need to have rate on it depending on their training, and thus can use it during match if it is high enough)
- Defensive line depth: FMSI & FIFAM already have it for a reason (to make my back defend deep or more high or normal)
- passing type: save- normal- risky ( when u are one up, u need more save passing, players pass to others who are more sure to get it without a risk of def nearby around him, normal : is without restriction, and risky, is trying to get the ball more forward ASAP and more to the box. most managers use it when needing a goal at last minutes, u added tempo this year, but I think still they are not the same as tempo is about time u have to make ur decisions, I’m talking here about quality and destinations as main factor )
- creative freedom : sometimes I want my talented player to use his skills and creativity to find solutions rather than restricting himself to team tactic, we need a bar to tune that.
- swap positions : player A and B can switch position to take out a marker outside the box, thus have better chance for an AM like Lambard to go in box and score
- Clearance: often – normal – buildup (players when clearing balls do it in 2 ways: either putinhg the ball out as main priority or try to keep the ball and build up an attack, u need to build up more like when u are 1-0 down, and time is running out and last thing u want ur def to clear ball out, I remember in 80s Bordeaux was a classy team like arsenal and they will never put the ball out. But buildup always an attack )
- change direction: team can change the game from one side to another, it is useful to open up more width and to expand team def trying to create a hole, beside it can be useful having fast winger

2- Media:
Yes at last great improvement as we seen in the screenshoots, but I feel we need to not forget:
- no repetitive articles
- more hot news, like player having problem with manage rand quitting training the speculation about it like robhino case, or transfers sagas like CR or arshavin buying out his contract ..etc.
- gossip section in the news: mostly taken from deals happing in the background or from shortlist any manager makes, and sure some news are not true.
- manager mind games, like Rafa and SAF recently, having all an effect + or – on players on both sides

3- Pre & post Match Analyses:
- after and before each game, it is nice to see like in Skysport, a panel of analysers analysing both sides, giving their prediction and what is main strength and weak points for each team. Then after match, each one in the panel give his reaction to the match, this is where many of prozone analyses become very useful, just like Lee Dixon or alan hanson showing images of what was wrong of Chelsea positioning …etc, did they set back too much, did they lack speed, …etc..
- it is important and nice for us to know that this gonna be hard game as everyone predicting we gonna lose then deliver a win. And it gonna be nicer for the panle of analyser to admit I’m doing great or bad job, this put us more in the picture of every day media life of any managers.

4- pre or post match interview
- main rule, there is no best answer, each one has its + or -, u just have to choose what u need by that time and u think it is right.

5- youth teams
- more youth teams

6- Manager AI:
- try more using tactics that beat ur team in last mach for example
- loan out players who will not play and gonna be out of first 22 in picking up order

7- Board meetings
- manager may attend some board meetings especially in bad times, trying to convince chairman and other members of board why they should keep him, or why results were so bad in last 2-3 matches. Like in real life, it could be done in Qs and answers like interview, then depending on ur answers reaction of board and their decision gonna be told to u, and sure part of that gonna go to the news and media adding more pressure on u and effecting fans confidence on u.

Ok, will add other faeatures to my wishlist once having new ones
cheers

1. Disagree - They have Time Wasting, y'know, actually they have mainly everything you put on number one. And the tactics were good this year I think.
2. Agree
3. Agree
4. Agree.
5. Disagree - More youth teams? I believe there is enough.
6. Agree
7. 50/50, thee is already a board meeting every month in CM08, I know it's now like what your thinking but I don't know about that idea.

[DUTTCH]

ability to choose other rival teams local and other country.

selecting reserve, youth teams for games, but not watching them play?

a editor and maybe a way it can incorporate adding player photos?

more younger players in the respawn of new players??


during match show more of the field - less of the right hand side menu? Maybe show alittle of the staduim around the fence line and basic crowd anitmations? (only heads?)

Maybe lower league teams have less crowd/staduim, field less green and more sandy/muddy around ground? Team performance has effect on crowd numbers in the ground if shown? + we select a grounds men and how much to spend on greening field/maintence. Light towers around field etc

[shwan]

Originally Posted by Villa409

1. Disagree - They have Time Wasting, y'know, actually they have mainly everything you put on number one. And the tactics were good this year I think.
2. Agree
3. Agree
4. Agree.
5. Disagree - More youth teams? I believe there is enough.
6. Agree
7. 50/50, thee is already a board meeting every month in CM08, I know it's now like what your thinking but I don't know about that idea.

1- well m8 ur mixing it with FM SI or FIFAM m8, CM08 really didn't have those tactical options. then what about others features, i played UTD yesterday with CM08, and wanted CR to swap with Nani, like they do in RL, but couldn't, and have to restrict to put CR on right side, tried to give him free role, but it is not the same as CR do in RL.

5- possibly ur right, may be i'm a bit greedy

7- well i'm talking about emergecny meetings, when ur talent of speech can get away or make things worse when under presssure by board, for exemple u can blame the board for not having same budget as other teams, so there expectations shouldn't be as high, as ur doing ur best with given budget, or blame it in some poor perfomance of some players, which can save ur job for some weeks trying to change position in table, but meaning ur lose players confidence and trust on u ..etc. i feel currently interaction with board, it is not that realstic, and lack depth of what really happen in RL, we should be able to fight during board mettings to turn the table around.

[shwan]

Originally Posted by DUTTCH

ability to choose other rival teams local and other country.

1-selecting reserve, youth teams for games, but not watching them play?

2- a editor and maybe a way it can incorporate adding player photos?

3- more younger players in the respawn of new players??

4- during match show more of the field - less of the right hand side menu? Maybe show alittle of the staduim around the fence line and basic crowd anitmations? (only heads?)

5- Maybe lower league teams have less crowd/staduim, field less green and more sandy/muddy around ground? Team performance has effect on crowd numbers in the ground if shown? + we select a grounds men and how much to spend on greening field/maintence. Light towers around field etc

1- yes, as long it is optional, don't mind the option tho to watch the game if i wanted to see one of the kids, like AW do watchign reserve games sometimes, but all should be optional

2- yes
3- yes
4- yes, and may some optional bar for zoom of camera, or when ball in box or near by
5- yes

[szkodi]

Originally Posted by TacticalGenius

Ignore him Anthony, because if he wants to play 0102 so much, let him play teletext football and make 09 for people who want to watch.

Even so - u can always put the option in settings to remove 3d animation and put text mode only. Is it such a big difference? If some ppl would like to play in old style then gave them a chance. The rest might use 100% of CM 09. As for me it sounds simple but... i realise its a lot of programming etc.

[Villa409]

Originally Posted by shwan

1- well m8 ur mixing it with FM SI or FIFAM m8, CM08 really didn't have those tactical options. then what about others features, i played UTD yesterday with CM08, and wanted CR to swap with Nani, like they do in RL, but couldn't, and have to restrict to put CR on right side, tried to give him free role, but it is not the same as CR do in RL.

5- possibly ur right, may be i'm a bit greedy

7- well i'm talking about emergecny meetings, when ur talent of speech can get away or make things worse when under presssure by board, for exemple u can blame the board for not having same budget as other teams, so there expectations shouldn't be as high, as ur doing ur best with given budget, or blame it in some poor perfomance of some players, which can save ur job for some weeks trying to change position in table, but meaning ur lose players confidence and trust on u ..etc. i feel currently interaction with board, it is not that realstic, and lack depth of what really happen in RL, we should be able to fight during board mettings to turn the table around.

For tactics, go into tactics then go into team instructions or player instructions and trust me you'll find a heap of things like Time Wasting etc etc.

For youth team, I'm glad you agree with me.

For emergency board meeting, I did know what you meant , I'm not stupid but I'm still unsure.

[shwan]

Originally Posted by Villa409

For tactics, go into tactics then go into team instructions or player instructions and trust me you'll find a heap of things like Time Wasting etc etc.

For youth team, I'm glad you agree with me.

For emergency board meeting, I did know what you meant , I'm not stupid but I'm still unsure.

agree about time wasting m8, it was my msitake, i forget it was part of mentality bar.
but the rest don't exist to tune up tactic more IMO
anyway it is just an opinion

[DUTTCH]

1/ during watching the game/match - under the game text, have more relevant news scrolling?!? eg recent games played - other 1/2 time scorelines, lead goal scorers, assist? your games best players?other news?

2/ weather effects during game? snow around sideline of field/ground, muddy/wet patches, puddles??? Or maybe type of weather game being played in, is displayed in a small picture in corner of screen showing sunny days,cloudy,windy,hot + the temperture? Maybe a small wind sock/flag showing wind direction blowing in the direction of the wind.

3/ Match sound - crowds chants,team chants/songs / Sound of ball hitting the post (sound more fuller or dramatic) when rebounding back into play, and sound less when scraping the bar?

4/ select/record best goals from your team or the team your playing against

5/Set Piece Tactics eg setup you teams corner/throw in/freekick positions at training/tactics screen?

6/players sit on clear bench/dugout?

7/reserve and youth team season ladders and histories eg goal scorer/assists/positions/

[Ibracadabra78]

Guys what about a manager's agent who could present offers to the manager and close deals with other teams for the next season??

It would be funny and realistic! Let's say you could sign a contract with Manchester Utd for the year 2010 while you're still managing Fulham...you have to finish the season with Fulham but you can plan possible signings for the next one when you'll manage Man Utd..and maybe convince some of your current players to follow you..